New Introduction to Computing Course Feedback
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With the proposal that the existing ICS courses be removed from the Tech document, and the removal of all computer programming expectations from the proposed TTI course, students in grade 9 will not have an opportunity to study computer science concepts. Should there be an introductory grade 9 course that explores the broad scope of computing, such as: the expectations that were removed from the TTI course; basic computer programming concepts; basic computer hardware concepts; using application software such as spreadsheets, word processors, graphics, animation and communication (presentations, email, IM, webpage creation)? Do you agree that a Computer Studies grade 9 course is a good idea? (Please score either +2 or +1 for this response.) If you feel that a Computer Studies grade 9 course would be detrimental, why? What are the disadvantages? (Please score either -2 or -1 for this response.) |
Below are people's responses in roughly chronological order
First my response would be +1
Before the last curriculum reform we had the DIC2A/G course that I thought was a good introduction to computing for students. In this course we covered the parts of a computer and how the computer works including binary, application programs (word processing, spreadsheets, database programs etc.) and computer programming. After taking this course students then went on to take the computer science and technology courses or data processing courses. A lot of what was covered in the DIC2A/G course was moved into the BTT course.
I think we should move the BTT course (I don't know what the new code would be) into a Computer Studies document as a grade 9 or 10 "Introduction to Computer Studies" course and add in a computer programming unit and maybe a little more hardware. I think this would be a better fit than the computer programming unit in the TTI course that wasn't always taught. My response was +1 and not +2 because I don't know if this should be a grade 9 course or a grade 10 course. Perhaps this should also be a mandatory course.
Gord Ridout Head of Computer Studies Richmond Hill High School
I'm not actually going to rank in a number on this one, but rather suugest that we should not be considering BTT. It is solidly in the Business Studies document which was already revised and is NOT going to change. If we speak of a grade 9 course, it would be something different in content and name than BTT.
Michelle Ouellette OYAP/Technological Education Consultant Dufferin-Peel CDSB
Response: -2
I have a number of concerns regarding the suggestion of an additional grade 9 credit.
a. Grade 9 students only have the option of 2 options. One of the options is usually consumed by an arts credit (compulsary to obtain 1 credit to graduate). That leaves 1 real option for consideration.
b. Currently students can select for the 1 optional space from business, technologies, an additional arts credit (music & visual, drama & dance ... for 2 examples), or GLS 10.
c. Many schools may be considering GLS10 as a school-based required credit for the future. This will support the new OSS documents where a guidance credit is now part of the options that students are encouraged to consider (with the same category of tech and business). It also supports Pathways thinking and guiding students in appropriate choices. I believe we may be seeing a dilution of grade 9 options with the current course options and the new OSS in the near future in many schools. While I understand the GLS10 rationale, as an advocate for both tech & business I have a number of red flags up.
d. The suggestion is taking from existing curriculum documents (ei BTT 100), which just underwent curriculum review last year and was implemented in Sept 2006. Quote: "basic computer hardware concepts; using application software such as spreadsheets, word processors, graphics, animation and communication (presentations, email, IM, webpage creation)" ... this is all part of the new BTT 10/20 course - Computer and Information Technologies. With such a large over-lapping of content, what is really being suggested is a reconsideration of BTT to meeting some of your needs. With BTT as a new document, I really think this is hopeful thinking at best at this current point in time. Not to disclude it in the future, but right now the timing is unsupportive.
e. Schools always must consider sustainability of the computer inventory. To offer an additional course that would consume a computer lab completely may not be feasible for many schools. Even now, there is a large proportion of schools not offering computer-based courses because of the lack of accessibility to technology (eg. the GIS course). While we would like to offer everything to students, if we can't support it with required resources we can't offer it. Balancing all needs for accessibility to technology in a school, to add another full-time demand to a lab would not be received well by administration in my opinion.
Sorry for the 'nay saying' response. I just think that when we look at the big picture ...
Gail Shotlander Instructional Coordinator - Information Technology, PDSB
Intro to Computer Studies for Grade 9
- strongly agree (+2)
Reasons
- This should be a practical course stressing the use of computer applications (Word, Excel, IM, ...)
- How many of us learned the proof of the Pythagorean Theorem before its application?
- The same logic applies here, even more so because CS is optional and math Grade 9 is not.
- What faster way to turn off kids, then give them something of little practical relevance in their first CS course.
- On the contrary, what better way to entice students to venture into subsequent areas of Computers/Technolog y.
- In terms of programming concepts, I urge prudence.
- I would rather see the proper use of Spreadsheet functions such as concatenation, substrings, average, sum, abs, mod ..
- Spreadsheets would be the tool of choice because of its ubiquity in virtually all professions.
- Also, it can help students in their subjects. Again the idea of relevance is at play.
- For exceptional classes, perhaps getting into VBA (I'm pretty sure OpenOffice has a module for this).
- With VBA you are still sticking with a known application, but responding to automation by going beyond the limits of the functions above.
- El-Noor
I agree that the DIC2C/G/B was a great introductory course. Have you tried to market TIK20 to Grade 9 students? I'm teaching ICE3E this year and it looks like we'll offer ICE4E next year as well. We did not have enough interest in TIK2O and ICS3M to run any sections this year. Therefore, the new document is redundant. In fact, it's only the interest in the hands-on computer engineering workplace course that keeps Computer Studies alive at the school. Why? We have too many strong technology programs competing for elective credits.
However, I am cooking up some things to rescue Comp Sci. For instance, I just finished teaching Turing to the ICE3E class (BTW: 1/2 these kids are ACADEMIC) and everyone enjoyed the opportunity to program!!!! I've set up a separate network using a legacy server and we're running WIN2K server. I hope to move this to win2003 server and set up a dual boot enviro with Suse Linux. Next, we install Red Hat, php/mySQL, Moodle and start exploring Web 2.0. Next, we teach a real, unrestricted Comp Sci program which includes dynamic web development, interfacing, Alice, etc. Finally, we advertise the program and invite kids to play network games and rebuild Comp Sci. It's hard work building a program and now it's rediculous with computer courses all over the place.
Unfortunately, the success of one program usually means the demise of another.
Just some thoughts.
Kiley
Kiley McDaniel Curriculum Chair (Business/Computer/Technology) St. Stephen's Secondary
Hi All
+1 (with reservations, how different would it be from TIK2O??? Overlap with BTT plus how many choices do grade 9s get anyway??)
Here at Moira SS ALL grade 9's take half semester of broad based tech and half of BTT (which I teach some of) The broad based tech depends on teacher availability, e.g. in semester 2 this year they are getting Auto, semester 1 got manufacturing, sometimes they get comm tech, the BTT half is more consistent, though when I teach it I make a point of including a crash course in Pixel Graphics using Turing, many students have discoverd they like this a lot!! I also do a GIS unit to cover the database expectations of the new BTT curriculum (I used to work in the field and I am hoping to get Geomatics off the ground next year) I guess what I am trying to say is, if I have a capative audience for half a semester I am going to introduce stuff that might point them in the direction of my courses down the line, not only do we seem to be competing with neighbouring schools for students, we are now expected to compete for students within our schools...
One suggestion (made by Kiley McDaniel) sounds like a serious option for my school, we could offer TIK2O to the 9's, what I described above is awarded as a single TTI1O credit, offering a full TIK2O to those interested grade 9's could really improve my TIK2O, it has become a dumping ground. I'm sure I could sell the idea to the IB co-ordinator as part of an 'enriched option' in fact first thing after March break I'll be suggesting it!!
Mick Saunders
Moira SS
Belleville
Hi All,
For this question I'm giving a -2.
I have concerns that there would be far too much over lap in courses if we introduce another one, especially if this course is in addition to all the existing courses. Too much overlap can be a bore for many students.
For me, learning how to use programs such as Word or Excel is not computer science. These are business apps and business studies may be the best place for them. I'm have concerns that we are considering courses that use computers as tools for courses related to computer science.
Rino Iannotta
I strongly agree (+2) that a Computer Studies grade 9 course would be a great idea.
We need this to expose the grade 9s to Computer Studies.... where else will they get exposure? How will we get them in grade 10? Of course, the problem is now we're offering evern more options to grade 9s who have few available slots. I don't know... maybe it will have a good drawing.
Brad Bailey John Diefenbaker Secondary School Hanover, ON
Yes there needs to be a grade 9 computer course that has similar computer expectations to those in the existing TTI course. No it should not be a BTT clone course. It should be 'forward looking' ...how about exploring robotics / mechatronics ...how about using Lego NXT bricks and the GUI programming interface ... or how about programming web pages ...
BTT covers all of the 'applications'. This course should have a clear and different set of expectations. It should inspire students to pursue TIK and TEE courses ...(whatever they are coded and called) .
JM $0.02 worth
rooom 221
Question: *Do you agree that a Computer Studies grade 9 course is a good idea?
Answer: +2 (strongly agree)
Captivate them in grade 9 and you'll have a better chance of keeping them. Include web design and animation and fun light programming. We have our IB students take TIK in grade 9 and it's the only way we get them in the senior courses.
Nicole Cairns
My response is +2. I think I had a eureka moment while cleaning baby spit-up off myself in the shower last night. Of course, in such situations, eureka moments and insanity moments often juxtapose. Love to hear some feedback though.
My recommendation is to adopt the same model as the Business Document and offer (TIK) as a grade 9 OR grade 10 course. Let's face it, the Ministry is not going to invent a new course for us at this stage in the game. But allowing TIK to be taken in either year is a simple change and has precedent in other documents. AND I think the minor change in my school at least would have dramatically positive changes. AND it can be argued for as a necessary step due to the removal of programming concepts in the TTI.
--
Speaking as the Department Head who meets Grade 8 Parents on Parents Night, there is a lot of enthusiasm for Computer Studies. I get a lot of parents and students dropping by. Unfortuantely, I essentially turn them away with the meagre message 'remember us next year'. I can't always in good conscience recommend either BTT or TTI for both political and technical reasons.
The problem with the current state of computer courses is continuance - having a path. We have no grade 9 course. Business has a grade 9 computer course, but no grade 10 follow-up. Students ARE getting frustrated because there is no clear computer path from grade 9 to 12. And I think that Gord is right in looking to Business.
1) We could adopt a BTT-like applications course in grade 9... ...
OR what I'd prefer
2) We could adopt the same strategy as the business document. They offer the same course in Grade 9 AND grade 10. BTT1O and BTT2O are identical!! This allows students two years that they can possibly choose the course. a) Our Guidance Department strictly forbids grade 8 students from signing up to anything but a grade 9 course. [After grade 9 anything is fair game). This change would allow students to take the new TIK in grade 9. b) I'm sure you (like myself) have heard this many times from Grade 10 students - "I'd like to take ICE AND ICS but I can't fit both in my schedule". Well the keeners who take TIK1O can now take ICS3 in grade 10 and ICE3 in Grade 11 if they so choose.
Anyone care to rain on my parade?? ;-D
michael roy-diclemen
Yes captivate the grade 9's +2
I have looked at our numbers for next year and we are losing to BTT, because they see IT applications, web pages etc., the TTI courses are being crushed because of BTT applications and possibilities. We are also starting IB at our school and we will fall short in Technology if we do not think of computer studies courses for grade nines within the technology umbrella which includes Computer Sciences and Computer Engineering.
- Laurene Green SIR WILFRID LAURIER COLLEGIATE I. CL BBT/Computers/ Technology
I think offering TIK1O/TIK2O at grade 9 & 10 is a great idea, it could really work at my school(if the powers ar be wanted it to) if it takes baby spit up to trigger a good idea, then so be it ....
Mick Saunders Moira SS Belleville
At our school, students MUST take a half-credit BTT in Grade 9. They currently match that with a half-credit TTI, only because the Social Science (aka Family Studies) teacher didn't want to offer a Grade 9 course. The reason we do the BTT half-credit it to insure that all students have a set of IT skills for use in other courses (and life in general). We did a full credit BTT for the first 2 years and have done the half-credit, required, course ever since (how many years is that?).
What I'm thinking of doing in BTT next year is to have a mini-unit on "programming" using Alice. Currently I only show the students Alice when telling them about additional courses they can take. Some are so turned on, they download it at home that night and come back to the lab following days to show me what they're doing.
Given the limited number of options Grade 9 / 10 students can take, trying to offer a separate course (Grade 9 and/or 10) would be problematic. Short-term, it makes sense to add a programming component to the existing course BTT.
Long-term, I'd like to see BTT in a "computer studies" document where the introductory CS course (Grade 9) covers applications, programming, and some hardware/electronics (a solid introduction to ALL upstream CS courses). In an ideal world, this introductory CS course would be a mandatory credit.
Peter McAsh St. Marys DCVI
Score of +1
I'm going off the deep end here...
I feel strongly that there should be grade 9 course from the Computer Studies department, but that it should really be grouped together with BTT1O/2O somehow. When I taught the BTT course, the feel of it (due to my background) was more or less based in Computers. I would definitely like it to be a cross-disciplinary course between business/computers and possibly any number of other courses. If it had a focus in several different subject areas, perhaps then it could be classified as a mandatory course and would bump up numbers for computer teachers.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
Alan Yeung
Hi all,
Just thought I'd mention what our school has done quite successfully. We offer TTI1O but make it a 1/2 BTT, 1/2 TTI split (1 semester of each). They have TTI every second day and 1 semester they're in the computer lab and 1 semester they're in the shop. Our reasoning for the split was
a) Parents were always confused by whether their son/daughter should be in TTI or BTT.
b) Everyone when they start Grade 9 learns some basic computer skills. For most this is redundant but at least they are all at the same level on leaving Grade 9.
c) Everyone has at least 1 semester of shop. Males and Females alike learn some woodworking basics and basic mechanics. Our feeling is that some of the more academic students will continue in shop throughout highschool. Also, if not for this brief time, most students would NEVER venture into the shop - they're missing an important life skill. Ditto for computer time.
My Grade 10 TIK course has dropped in numbers in recent years. I think all who teach the optional courses are finding this so I don't think this is necessarily as a result of teaching the BTT/TTI split.
Finally, as ICS3M has no prerequisite I have been steering various Math high achievers into this course when they are in Grade 10. I hope then to have my split ICS3M/4M class at healthy numbers for next fall.
Suzanne Dunford
I like Gord's idea about moving the BTT into the tech stream, and then we could add a programming unit to it, either in Turing, or you could use Flash or any other type of programming language.
rob ceccato
If computer-oriented expectations are moved out of TTI 10, or are usually skipped by tech teachers teaching that course, then it seems like a grade 9 computer course would make sense. Introducing programming and hardware troubleshooting so early would be a great hook to get kids to take more computer courses, especially if you get into some graphics stuff in the programming part!
However, some of the topics mentioned seem... inappropriate to me. Doesn't everyone grow up with a computer now? Do we really need to teach the kids word processing, or do they already know how? Even more than that, they're already very familiar with email and especially instant messaging before they arrive. Perhaps the main thing there wouldn't be how to use those as much as some issues relating to those (i.e. internet safety - avoiding pedophiles, preventing viruses and spyware, etc.).
+2.
This is in response to the question on the need for a Grade 9 computer course.
Response: +2
I think the course should focus on basic skills that will help Grade 9 students throughout their high school career, mainly word processing, spreadsheets and presentations. In my experience most adults lack the skills to use these applications properly so I don't think it is reasonable to expect students to understand these things (proper formatting of a document, spreadsheet design, spreadsheet functions etc). This course could still be used to introduce students to the more common computer studies topics but I believe the focus should remain on common user applications that all students are likely to use throughout high school and beyond.
I would even go further as to make this a mandatory course for all Grade 9 students. I believe it could significantly improve the quality of work done in reports and presentations across all disciplines as well as give opportunities to focus on literacy (word processing) and numeracy (spreadsheets) with all Grade 9 students.
Dave Laemers
Link back to Curriculum Reform
